SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

fdd_fr
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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by fdd_fr » 08 Jun 2013, 16:10

LFRH has been updated, because one SID had an error, and since the panel 0.61, posted today, SID can contains 3 sort of constraints :

- Speed constraint aganst altitude
- Speed Constraint against a waypoint
- Altitude Constraint against a waypoint


SID/STAR/APPROACH User manual in english is under construction.


Francois

fdd_fr
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Joined: 03 Jan 2012, 16:02

Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by fdd_fr » 09 Jun 2013, 17:27

Adrian Roebl has translated the first part of the user manual to create SID , STAR and appproach. I havn't yet completed this manual , so, it will be updated in the next days.


Freenav DB Group SID STAR APPROACH Creation user manual (translate from french by Adrian Roebl)


I have a message from adrian that he want I include in this post :
"Francois has done a lot of work on this document, and I have done my
best to translate it, but my French is not perfect, and this is a
technical document. This is definitely better than what you would get
from Google translate - I know this because I tried it (and I'm sure a
few others have too - with dismal results).

If you have translation suggestions, I will create a mail address, or
maybe we can create a forum thread to discuss it. I don't know the
SID/STAR terminology very well, so there may be some errors, e.g. I am
quite sure that the correct term for entering a STAR against the route
direction is not a 'reverse entry', although I might be wrong. I have
been learning about SIDs and STARs during this exercise, and there was a
lot that I didn't know."

Regards
Adrian


Thank you to read the work of adrian. So, if you have suggestions, please, write here, in this topic your comments.

Tnanks

We work on the next step of the manual.


And here is the link to download the last EXCEL input file (v3.0h) to create SID/STAR/APPROACH files : new EXCEL Input file v3.0h updated June 9

I have updated the first post of the thread.

francois

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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by Airbus Fan » 09 Jun 2013, 18:39

Thanks, now I'm trying to do something with SID's.. If I have some luck or questions, I'll reply to You. :)

EDIT*: I'm just a begineer, it's a bit hard to me. :D

Airbus Fan
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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by Airbus Fan » 10 Jun 2013, 08:12

I didin't understand how to save file in CSV format... I don't get view like in your files... :|

fdd_fr
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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by fdd_fr » 10 Jun 2013, 08:29

In EXCEL, when you save a file, select "Save as" and in the box, you can choose the output file format (default is XLS) : Select .csv format (comma separated value).

The CSV format file is a text foramt file, where the columns are symbolized by commas. You can open CSV file with any test editor.

Check before if you havn't an english version of excel, that the list Separator of windows is the comma (",") and the decimal symbol is the point (".") and not the comma. If not, go to the country setting of your configuration panel of windows and do the change.

Airbus Fan
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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by Airbus Fan » 10 Jun 2013, 08:45

Image

I did it few times, but when I open it with notepad, I have this weird thing...

fdd_fr
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Joined: 03 Jan 2012, 16:02

Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by fdd_fr » 10 Jun 2013, 12:28

Your windows is like the french windows. You must change the regional/language setting in the control panel of windows. (don't worry, there is no impact on your windows).


Read the fisrt page of the SID/STAR user manual :

Note : The final files used by the FMC are in CSV format (Comma Separated Value), a format supported by
EXCEL (the CSV is a text file format, where each value is separated by a comma, and each comma indicates a
column in EXCEL).
The CSV file format can be opened with a simple text editor like notepad, and EXCEL can be used to open and
save/create CSV files.
If you are not using a French version of Excel, you need not read the following paragraph:
France is an exception in the world, because is uses the comma as a decimal separator, so the french Excel
version uses the semi-colon (;) as the CSV separator. Therefore, it is imperative to change the Windows
language parameters for column separator, and decimal separator symbols. Don’t worry, this won’t have any
impact all your other Excel files, but without this change you won’t be able to create a valid CSV file.
To do this, go to the Windows configuration panel, select ‘regional and language options settings ‘, then click
the Customise button, and select ‘.’ As the decimal symbol, and select ‘,’ as the column/list separator. Confirm
by clicking OK (was , and ; before). Henceforce, your Excel is universal, and compatible with the rest of the
world, especially the CSV format.
When you start working on an airport, start by creating a folder with the ICAO code of the airport as its name.
Open the proforma file and save (save-as) a copy (since the original file is write-protected) by inserting the
ICAO code of the airport at the beginning of the filename. Afterwards, as you continue with your work, save
often, and always in .xls format.
You must make this change, otherwise, you can create standard CSV file.

- The decimal symbol must be the point '.'
- The separator list must be the comma ','


these changes in your windows will have no impact on other application.


After these changes, fill your data in EXCEL and at the end , save always your job in XLS format, to keep the original file of your airport in xls format.

After your backup, delete the row where are the columns titles (by right click on the row number , and in the popup menu, delete the row.

Delete all the rows unsused, and all the columns unused : warning : delete the columns from the first # waypoint columns unsused in all SID; For exemple, if your longest SID has 9 waypoints, delete all the columns from the columns "Waypoint # 10" and save the form in .CSV format. Don't care of the EXCEL message boxes about commas, respond by yes.
with these manipulations, you will have the minimum commas to delete in the CSV file with the text editor.
quit ECXEL without saving anything to avoid any modification in the original XLS file.

You must always keep the XLS file without delete anything, in order to make further changes if necessary.

I hope that you undestand what I mean.

Airbus Fan
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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by Airbus Fan » 10 Jun 2013, 13:53

Ok, thank You. I did my first SID, and it worked. But In FMS I can see just number of RWY ( ex. 18 ) but no SID title, no direction where it's going to..

EDIT: Now I can see SID's titles. Searching solution for another problem. :D

Airbus Fan
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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by Airbus Fan » 10 Jun 2013, 15:20

Why the 1st SID is working perfectly, but another ones aren't showing me any way points..?

fdd_fr
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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by fdd_fr » 10 Jun 2013, 16:02

I can't tell you why without information. you made ​​a mistake somewhere. Send me your CSV and XLS file by mail ---->fdd_fr at yahoo.fr

Airbus Fan
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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by Airbus Fan » 10 Jun 2013, 16:54

I sent files for You by email.

fdd_fr
Posts: 1650
Joined: 03 Jan 2012, 16:02

Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by fdd_fr » 10 Jun 2013, 18:20

Thanks Airbus Fan.

For the next time, please, save your file in XLS format and not in XLSX format, because I have an old EXCEL version and I must convert your file with an online converter. Keep the XLS format.

When you save your XLS file, you havn't to create everal files. I have created tabs in the preformatted xls file to write in the same file SI index, sid data, Star index , Star data and approachs. You must write all your data in one file ; Use the tabs.

Your problem is very simple; You havn't read the manual. See page 17 and 18 : After save the CSV files, you must delete some unused comma

here is your SID index file :
3,,
18,E,ERIVA 4E
18,E,TUSAS 5E
18,E,SAKTA 4E
SID Index - ICAO - Name Aiport - Town - Country,,
v3.xx - June/2013,,
© Airbus Fan - FreeNav DB Group,,
Require the Graham Mitchell AIRAC update file : Update version 01032013 or later,,
Go to http://www.gbmitch.net/ AIRAC © Graham Mitchell,,
look at, you have 2 commas after the number of SID on the first line. You must delete them to have in final :
3
18,E,ERIVA 4E
18,E,TUSAS 5E
18,E,SAKTA 4E
SID Index - ICAO - Name Aiport - Town - Country
v3.xx - June/2013
© Airbus Fan - FreeNav DB Group
Require the Graham Mitchell AIRAC update file : Update version 01032013 or later
Go to http://www.gbmitch.net/ AIRAC © Graham Mitchell
For your SID_data file, same error; but in the other side :

your file:
18,ERIVA 4E,178,0,1200,1200,6000,0,0,2,1,V,EV,,RIX,,,2,W,EV,,ERIVA
18,TUSAS 5E,178,0,1200,1200,5999,0,0,2,1,V,EV,,RIX,,,2,W,EV,,TUSAS
18,SAKTA 4E,178,0,1200,1200,6000,0,0,2,1,V,EV,,RIX,,,2,W,EV,,SAKTA
If you look at a waypoint block, you can see that there is 2 columns at the end of the waypoint block to write latitude and longitude for user waypoints. So, if your waypoints are not user waypoints, you have to let 2 commas.
If your awypoint is a user waypoint, with laitude and longitude, they will be no comma at the end of the waypoint block. Think that a comma is a column in EXCEL, and a waypoint block cannot be broken.
See after your first waypoint ident, threre is 3 commas = 2 position : longitude latitude, so this is the same thing for the last waypoint. This is the reason why there is 2 commas.

The right file is the following :
18,ERIVA 4E,178,0,1200,1200,6000,0,0,2,1,V,EV,,RIX,,,2,W,EV,,ERIVA,,
18,TUSAS 5E,178,0,1200,1200,5999,0,0,2,1,V,EV,,RIX,,,2,W,EV,,TUSAS,,
18,SAKTA 4E,178,0,1200,1200,6000,0,0,2,1,V,EV,,RIX,,,2,W,EV,,SAKTA,,
SID Data - ICAO - Name Aiport - Town - Country
v3.xx - June/2013
© Airbus Fan - FreeNav DB Group
Require the Graham Mitchell AIRAC update file : Update version 01032013 or later
Go to http://www.gbmitch.net/ AIRAC © Graham Mitchell
This is very important, because the FMS read the file sequentially, so if a comma is missing or in excess, all the all subsequent data will be distorted.

For the STAR data file, if the waypoint block has not an holding pattern or DME ARC or Turn Segment, the last waypoint finish by 4 commas. if there is a procedure (hold pattern....),

You must read and re-read, and re-re read the user manual.

Adrian just posted me an update of the translation of the manual to be more complete. I will upload this new version after the dinner.

But you have to read the manual so concentrated and obsever airport files already realized .

fdd_fr
Posts: 1650
Joined: 03 Jan 2012, 16:02

Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by fdd_fr » 10 Jun 2013, 19:52

The SID/STAR /approach manual has been updated (v1.2). Adrian has worked very hard and quickly to translate the new chapters and modifications.

You can download the new manual; the link posted above, works for the new version (and also the link in the first post of the topic).

but I re-write the link : Freenav DB Group SID STAR APPROACH Creation user manual (translate from french by Adrian Roebl) v1.2 updated

Airbus Fan
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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by Airbus Fan » 11 Jun 2013, 07:18

Thank You! Now I'm creating SID's of EVRA. All SID's are working perfectly! :)

fdd_fr
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Joined: 03 Jan 2012, 16:02

Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by fdd_fr » 11 Jun 2013, 08:04

Great Airbusfan !

You're welcome to the FreeNav DB Group community. Now, send be my mail your airport , I will add it to the database.

it is a sharing project.

Francois

Airbus Fan
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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by Airbus Fan » 11 Jun 2013, 08:22

Ok, when I'll finish SID's, I'll send it for You. :)

EDIT: Creating SID's is quite simple, when I'm realised how it works. :)

Airbus Fan
Posts: 602
Joined: 08 Aug 2012, 08:04

Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by Airbus Fan » 11 Jun 2013, 10:04

I have completed SID's of EVRA (25 SID's).

I'll send You it by e-mail. If there is any errors, tell me and explnain, why exactly it should be.

fdd_fr
Posts: 1650
Joined: 03 Jan 2012, 16:02

Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by fdd_fr » 11 Jun 2013, 10:58

Ok AirbusFan,

I am at my office, without Flight sim :D but At fisrt sight, all seems Ok.

few remarks that do not cause problems:

I post you Your SID_data file because it can be used for everyone :

18,ERIVA 4E,178,0,1200,1200,6000,0,0,2,1,V,EV,,RIX,,,2,W,EV,,ERIVA,,
18,TUSAS 5E,178,0,1200,1200,6000,0,0,2,1,V,EV,,RIX,,,2,W,EV,,TUSAS,,
18,SAKTA 4E,178,0,1200,1200,6000,0,0,2,1,V,EV,,RIX,,,2,W,EV,,SAKTA,,
18,AMOLI 2E,178,0,1200,1200,6000,0,0,2,1,V,EV,,RIX,,,2,W,EV,,AMOLI,,
18,VANAGE 5E,178,0,1200,1200,6000,0,0,2,1,V,EV,,RIX,,,2,W,EV,,VANAGE,,
18,SOKVA 5E,178,0,1200,1200,6000,0,0,2,1,V,EV,,RIX,,,2,W,EV,,SOKVA,,
18,BERIL 3E,178,0,1200,1200,4000,0,0,2,1,V,EV,,RIX,,,2,W,EV,,BERIL,,
18,ASKOR 4E,178,0,1200,1200,4000,0,0,2,1,V,EV,,RIX,,,2,W,EV,,ASKOR,,
18,VALED 4E,178,0,1200,1200,4000,0,0,2,1,V,EV,,RIX,,,2,W,EV,,VALED,,
18,TENSI 5E,178,0,1200,1200,4000,0,0,2,1,V,EV,,RIX,,,2,W,EV,,TENSI,,
18,LAPSA 4E,178,0,1200,1200,4000,0,0,2,1,V,EV,,RIX,,,2,W,EV,,LAPSA,,
36,ERIVA 5G,358,0,1200,1200,4000,10000,250,2,1,U,EV,,RIA,56.920898,23.965200,2,W,EV,,ERIVA,,
36,TUSAS 6G,358,0,1200,1200,4000,10000,250,2,1,U,EV,,RIA,56.920898,23.965200,2,W,EV,,TUSAS,,
36,SAKTA 5G,358,0,1200,1200,400010000,250,2,1,U,EV,,RIA,56.920898,23.965200,2,W,EV,,SAKTA,,
36,AMOLI 2G,358,0,1200,1200,400010000,250,2,1,U,EV,,RIA,56.920898,23.965200,2,W,EV,,AMOLI,,
36,NAVAG 6G,358,0,1200,1200,4000,10000,2500,2,1,U,EV,,RIA,56.920898,23.965200,2,W,EV,,NAVAG,,
36,SOKVA 6G,358,0,1200,1200,4000,10000,250,2,1,U,EV,,RIA,56.920898,23.965200,2,W,EV,,SOKVA,,
36,VALED 4G,358,0,2000,5000,4000,10000,250,2,1,U,EV,,RIA,56.920898,23.965200,2,W,EV,,VALED,,
36,VALED 3J,358,0,2000,5000,4000,10000,250,2,1,U,EV,,RIA,56.920898,23.965200,2,W,EV,,VALED,,
36,ASKOR 4G,358,0,2000,5000,4000,10000,250,2,1,U,EV,,RIA,56.920898,23.965200,2,W,EV,,ASKOR,,
36,ASKOR 3J,358,0,2000,5000,4000,10000,250,2,1,U,EV,,RIA,56.920898,23.965200,2,W,EV,,ASKOR,,
36,BERIL 3G,358,0,2000,5000,4000,10000,250,2,1,U,EV,,RIA,56.920898,23.965200,2,W,EV,,BERIL,,
36,BERIL 3J,358,0,2000,5000,4000,10000,250,2,1,U,EV,,RIA,56.920898,23.965200,2,W,EV,,BERIL,,
36,LAPSA 5G,358,0,2000,5000,4000,10000,250,2,1,U,EV,,RIA,56.920898,23.965200,2,W,EV,,LAPSA,,
36,TENSI 6G,358,0,2000,5000,4000,10000,250,2,1,U,EV,,RIA,56.920898,23.965200,2,W,EV,,TENSI,,
SID data - EVRA - Riga intl. - Riga - Latvia.
v3.xx - June/2013
© Airbus Fan - FreeNav DB Group
Require the Graham Mitchell AIRAC update file : Update version 01032013 or later
Go to http://www.gbmitch.net/ AIRAC © Graham Mitchell

In red color : For a user waypoint that is define by Longitude/latitude, it is not necessary to write the ICAO Region code, because this waypoint don't exist in the GPS database, this is your own creation, so you can let the field empty, without value.

10000,250 You have set a speed constraint according the altitude of 10000ft ; It is not necessary, because the FMS apply this rule by default (in all the world, liners can't exceed 250 kts below 10000ft. So the FMS manage this constraint automatically. You have just to set a speed constraint if the speed if less than 250 ft. So, you can leave these value, they do not cause bugs, but they are useless.

In blue color : Write your version file : 3.00 (for the future update).


To test your SID, you have two way.

1 way : test if there is a comma error :
Display the SID in the FMS widow and clik on the last SID ; If the waypoints are not displayed properly in the bottom of the FMS window, it means there is an error somewhere in the comma or the statements of waypoint numbers on each line of SID.
To find the sid line which has the error, click on the previous SID, and on the previous SID....until the waypoints are properly displayed : You have found the SID where the error is.

After this first test and if all is ok, you can test if all waypoints are OK.
For that,to find if there is an error in a waypoint name, create a direct flight plan from airport to any airport. Go to the Flight plan map of the FMS; you see on the list of the flight on the right of the window, only your 2 airports.
click on the first SID, and add it to your flight plan, : Waypoints are created; and click after on the DELETE SID button; waypoint must disappear and the 2 airports must stay. If the destination airport disappear (it stay only the departure aiport), it mean that a waypoint of your SID has an error and It has been not created, so check this SID.

I will test your SID tonight, when I go home.

Thank you

Francois

Airbus Fan
Posts: 602
Joined: 08 Aug 2012, 08:04

Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by Airbus Fan » 11 Jun 2013, 13:57

Can you send me a link where I can find STAR's and Approaches charts?I find some, but I can't see minimum/maximum altitude, max speeds etc.. It's a bit difficult to read STAR's and APP charts, but still I want to complete my work...

aroebl
Posts: 3
Joined: 11 Nov 2012, 15:36

Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by aroebl » 11 Jun 2013, 14:04

Airbus Fan wrote:Can you send me a link where I can find STAR's and Approaches charts?I find some, but I can't see minimum/maximum altitude, max speeds etc.. It's a bit difficult to read STAR's and APP charts, but still I want to complete my work...
You will find the necessary links at the end of the manual in section E - appropriately titled 'Useful Links'.

Airbus Fan
Posts: 602
Joined: 08 Aug 2012, 08:04

Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by Airbus Fan » 11 Jun 2013, 14:07

Thanks. :)

fdd_fr
Posts: 1650
Joined: 03 Jan 2012, 16:02

Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by fdd_fr » 11 Jun 2013, 16:24

Airbusfan, you will find all the AIP charts of EVRA (dated of may ,2 2013, lastest edition (SID/STAR/APPROACHS) with this link --> http://charts.aero/airport/EVRA


Before work, check if the runways have kept the same name, because FSX is dated of 2005, and the magnetic variation has changed, and in some airports, the unway name have changed.. So, you must use the runway name of FSX, not of the charts, otherwise, the FMS will cnannot create the runway threshold waypoint .

And read the airport notice information for noise abatement procedure, initial clearance altitude, or specific constraints...

You must always use the runway name of FSX.

Good luck and I wait your job ! :D

Airbus Fan
Posts: 602
Joined: 08 Aug 2012, 08:04

Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by Airbus Fan » 12 Jun 2013, 12:06

Hi, I'll complete it in the next week, because I don't have a time at these days.
Sorry.

aroebl
Posts: 3
Joined: 11 Nov 2012, 15:36

Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by aroebl » 15 Jun 2013, 17:18

Hi Francois,

I have just completed the SID Index for FAJS (in FSX, in reality it is now FAOR), and have some questions:

1. If there are parallel runways, that depart on the same SID, e.g. 03L and 03R - does one create two entries in the index and in the SID data page, or can you just enter 03 and use it for both of them?

2. Can the FMS handle a third runway e.g. 03L 03R and 03C, i.e. is there an option for a centre runway? Often one of these will have a different heading to the other two. This could answer question 1, since the unique identifier will be a combination of a SID name, and a runway name.

3. SID direction: Is this used by the FMS, or is it for display, so as well as entering N, S, E, W - NW, SW, etc - can one also enter SSE or SSW?

4. Most SIDs have 5 letter names, but there are some with much longer names such as HEIDELBERG 5D - what should I do here. Is this a valid SID if it has such a long name?

Thanks
Adrian

fdd_fr
Posts: 1650
Joined: 03 Jan 2012, 16:02

Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by fdd_fr » 15 Jun 2013, 20:40

aroebl wrote:Hi Francois,

I have just completed the SID Index for FAJS (in FSX, in reality it is now FAOR), and have some questions:

1. If there are parallel runways, that depart on the same SID, e.g. 03L and 03R - does one create two entries in the index and in the SID data page, or can you just enter 03 and use it for both of them?
Hi Adrian,

You must create one SID per Runway, because FMS use the runway name to create automatically the fist waypoint of the SID for an axis departure. And in the most cases, when you have a double runway, they have difffernet waypoints;, and sometimes different headings. If waypoints are the same, you can copy and paste the lines in the EXCEL file to win time; But it is a mandatory to write the SID for each runways.
aroebl wrote:

2. Can the FMS handle a third runway e.g. 03L 03R and 03C, i.e. is there an option for a centre runway? Often one of these will have a different heading to the other two. This could answer question 1, since the unique identifier will be a combination of a SID name, and a runway name.

You have here the ansxer to your first question. This is one of the reason why you must create separate SID. Airports charts are differents for each runways. You must follow the same sheme.


aroebl wrote:
3. SID direction: Is this used by the FMS, or is it for display, so as well as entering N, S, E, W - NW, SW, etc - can one also enter SSE or SSW?
You can use SSE or NWN (it is better !). Normally, there is the enough place in the FMS window to display 4 characters for this information.

aroebl wrote:

4. Most SIDs have 5 letter names, but there are some with much longer names such as HEIDELBERG 5D - what should I do here. Is this a valid SID if it has such a long name?
I think that HEIDELBERG 5D can be display in the FMS window; I think that the place in the fms window column is for 15 to 20 character (font is ARIAL and is not proportional). Try it, you see if the name is totally displayed. If not, in your sample, I think that HEIDELBERG is a VOR name, so you can use the 3 letter of the VOR name.

Welcome to the group adrian; After your great job with the french to english translation, you build airports ! great !




New, I have posted today a new airport : LOWW VIENNA (WIEN) - SCHWECHAT - AUSTRIA

File is online

LOWW has :

52 SID
13 STAR
16 Approachs from 4 IAF.

All the STAR can dispatch to all runways (All have ILS approachs)

Many works for this airport, because many missing points in the FSX database. I have created more than 100 waypoints !!!

The airport use the new FMS function with the speed constraint according waypoint position, because, after takeoff, aircraft must be turn immediatelly, so I have limited the aircraft speed during these turns, to avoid overshoot waypoints.

This function work with the beta 0.61 panel.

I will post tomorrow, a pack with the LOWW charts, and all my files and EXCEL files, if you want a sample.

I have made many test, and the airport has no bugs.

Some screenshots of my runway 34 landing of this afternoon :

Image

Image



I have update also the complete pack of all airports realized and the index PDf file, that you can find on this page : http://www.db-online.fr/dbonline/?page_id=854
There is a bug on the website if you use the language translation tool : airports are not displayed.

The Airport index in PDF format : http://www.db-online.fr/download/FD_FMC ... 0group.PDF
Francois

aroebl
Posts: 3
Joined: 11 Nov 2012, 15:36

Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by aroebl » 15 Jun 2013, 21:50

Thank you for all of your hard work Francois. Without you this wouldn't have happened.

Merci Beaucoup!

fdd_fr
Posts: 1650
Joined: 03 Jan 2012, 16:02

Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by fdd_fr » 16 Jun 2013, 05:51

It is at me to tell you thak you adrian ! And I have wirks for you yet, because mauals are not completed. I'm going to use my holiday to complete manuals.


For all people, if you want a complete sample , with charts, EXCEL file filled and ompleted and final .csv files, you can download this pack of LOWW ----> http://www.db-online.fr/francois/temp/L ... charts.zip

Pack file do 20mb.

It is a good sample, for the "LNAV engage" function and the "SPEED constraint according a waypoint in SIDs"

Francois

fdd_fr
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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by fdd_fr » 16 Jun 2013, 17:22

Hi,

I am so sorry, but I had do an error in a LOWW STAR (MASUR 2W) that I have called MAZUR 2W and same typ error error for the waypooint name, so this waypoint is not created.

I have updated the files (v3.01), in the dowload section of the website.

The airport file alone is updated, the complete pack of all airports (FD_FMC.zip pack) is also unpdated, and the sample pample pack also.

Sorry but I am very distrait !


Francois

Airbus Fan
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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by Airbus Fan » 17 Jun 2013, 16:59

Maybe there is a add-on, which can add all missing way points in the FSX?

fdd_fr
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Joined: 03 Jan 2012, 16:02

Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by fdd_fr » 18 Jun 2013, 08:42

Airbus Fan wrote:Maybe there is a add-on, which can add all missing way points in the FSX?
The Graham Mitchell AIRAC is made for that. It had 110 000 waypoints to the FSX database, but it is not complete, because new qaypoints are created every day, and Graham can't update daily his work. This already a huge job that is do !

Airbus Fan
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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by Airbus Fan » 18 Jun 2013, 08:51

Now I have another question. Look at this chart: http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic ... -05-02.pdf

STAR is going directly to the airport, and airport is IAF, so it means that approach should be controlled by ATC?

fdd_fr
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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by fdd_fr » 18 Jun 2013, 10:12

Hello everybody,


VERY IMPORTANT


Today, I have important things to say and I need your advice.

1)
First, I started to add STAR and approaches EDDS Stuggart whose SID had been made by Platudis, to have at least one full airport in Germany.



I realized at that time that in some cases, some RNAV STAR provide direct access to a runway and therefore do not call for a specific approach. (In fact, I had already met this case Geneva Cointrin LSGG).

But the FMS code that I wrote to automatic switching on the radio to the ILS frequency of the runway, and management approach speed (VAPP) can only be done through a file approach.

So what if the STAR as we write, it will require to manage the speed selects mode of thinking to adjust radio, in short, be careful, especially now that we are used to load an approach into the FMS.



Here is an example (with some EDDS STAR of this type) :

Image

The blue circle indicates the airport, red cerlces indicate the FAF and the FAF previous WPT I'll turn into IAF.

As you can see, all these STAR are dedicated to a direct landing on runway 07 without necessity approaches, such as STAR go to the IAF (VATER).

When I was treated cointrin Geneva, because I did not realize the file approaches, I knew I was not too posed that question and I had written in the file of STAR, the entire WPT .

But for EDDS, I will make approaches and I realized in reflective than my current FMS system xml code,create a problem because the STAR cannot initiate and manage the ILS and VAPP.

So the only solution I've found, and interrupt STAR at the waypoint before the FAF (so here DS411), and create a approach file named VATER.csv , which contains only two WPT:
- VATER with the SPEED column 0 for the FMS snaps VAPP
- The threshold of the runway.

In fact, I consider this FAF as an IAF.

Of course, by encoding the STAR, I consider that they lead directly to a landing, so I take care to indicate decreasing speed from the penultimate turn to finish theses STAR at DS411, with a velocity 180 kts, that I consider the minimum speed in a STAR (need to think about FMS will be implemented into jumbo aircrafts).

I soon finish writing the file and I will test the behavior of the aircraft by the end of the week.

I do not know if my explanation is clear, but I will add this example in the manual of FreeNav DB group.



2)
Still on this example of EDDS is very informative, I circled in green color the first waypoint of the STAR, BADSO because as you can see, the holding pattern is perpendicular to the path at the beginning of the STAR.
Out, this can be a problem, according the aircraft will arrive. Indeed, the logic seems to me this indicates a STAR porvenance the west, but it is vague, and if the user loads the STAR arriving slightly to the south-west and I code this holding pattern as conventional input, the circuit path in this holding will go wrong.

To avoid this, I will create 2 STAR "BADSO 07", with the same name, but in the index of STAR, I will show that the first arrival STAR is a N-NW and the second, I will show that STAR will be for arrival W-SW.

2 STAR will be exactly the same in the STAR_data array, only the first will be the input cell of the holding pattern WPT BADSO coded as a standard input (In the direction of the circuit, so with the number "1", since it ' is a left-hand circuit), and the second will be encoded for the same information by the number "3" , indicating a frontal entrance in the circuit; All other data will be exactly the same (so it does not require extra work because only to copy / paste the entire line of STAR in the array and just change the number indicating the direction of entry into the circuit.
So I'm osure that the plane will be faithful trajectory in the hold.

This example will also be added to the final owner manual .


Note: You'll notice on the map, altitudes to consider actually in the STAR File, which are the altitudes in bold underlined, and not those at the end the characters along trajectories (corresponding to minimum safe altitudes).


3)

Last point I want to address before going on leave, since the goal is that I finished writing the manual.

I want a collective opinion and participation of everyone in the answer to this question.

I will address the case of American STAR (and some European STAR).


As I have already said ovus, U.S. STAR are radically different from European STAR. European STAR always end on IAF (almost always with a holding except "Direct" STAR like EDDS which I just mentioned, but also EDDS has classic IAF STAR ).

U.S. STAR end on a waypoint, and in most cases, there is no "connection" between STAR and approach, because the approach is systematically vectoring by ATC.

Consequence: In the most cases, it is impossible to create approaches files for U.S. airport because there is a "hole" between the STAR charts and approaches final instrument charts (except for some exeptions : See KLAS and KSLC that I have realized).

This problem also occurs on some airport in Europe, but with a slight difference, but the same effect:
In Europe, the big platforms (London, Paris LFPG or even STOCKHOLM Arlanda STAR end on a good IAF with holding pattern, but it is the same between the IAF and the approach chart finals tracks, there is no approaches charts, because again, the ATC radar vectoring is mandatory systematically.

So we cannot programming an approach in the FMS to land, if you do not want to use FSX ATC or i is not flying in VATSIM or IVAO network.


Personally, this bothers me deeply.

What I propose: We can promote us ATC and create our own paths approaches, using clues that are on the charts (often on a course is indicated after the last waypoint of the STAR and in the narrative ), and following this path (using the QDM function in Plan-G), we see that the heading track is close an IAF.
Another feature of U.S. maps, IAF are on approach charts, not the STAR charts.

And with a little logic, (avoid flying above urban areas, relief, etc. .....) can be achieved easily these approaches.


So I'd like your opinion on this point:

You accept the creation of approaches, which will not necessarily real, but the original FSX ATC does not have so.

That, or no approaches.

Thank you to tell me your opinion, and argue that it is for or against.

Thanking you in advance .......


Your answers matter a lot for me and the future of this project.


François

fcerven
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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by fcerven » 19 Jun 2013, 15:29

Hi Francois,

Summer activities have kept me away from this project but have been following progress. Thank You for this great product. I have noticed the disconnect between the STARs and approach here in the US also. My initial inclination would be to provide a vector (or vectors) to intercept the approach and the ILS. Given how un-realistic the FSX ATC is in these situations, I see this as the best alternative.

Just one question. How do they handle this on VATSIM? Maybe knowing that would help here.

Have a great vacation.

Fred.

fdd_fr
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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by fdd_fr » 23 Jun 2013, 11:56

Hi Fred,

Excuse me for my late response, but Ihave began my USA roadtrip and the landscapes are more important for the moment ! but I will continue to work.

I hink that on the VATSIM or IVAO network, if there is an ATC on the destination airport, this is him that gives to the aircraft the vectors to final.
In other cases, I don't know.


I think that the better solution is to create approachs, when it is possible and when the logical of the STAR and the destination airport position permit to imagine the vectors to intercept the ILS.

For the 5 weeks that arrive, my work and my presence will be less frequent.

I have just a notebook and it isn't the ideal tool to progrma the panel, and my mind is more through the lenses of my camera.

But I will works a little, I promise.

Francois

fcerven
Posts: 35
Joined: 29 Nov 2009, 18:34

Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by fcerven » 23 Jun 2013, 17:20

Hi Francois,

I understand fully. Just responding to your request for input. I have been on vacation the past few weeks also. Have a great one.

Fred.

P.S. Remember, if you have time and are in the area, give me a call.

fdd_fr
Posts: 1650
Joined: 03 Jan 2012, 16:02

Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by fdd_fr » 24 Jun 2013, 10:59

Hi fred,

I will send to you by mail my itinerary to know if I go next door to you.

Francois

Airbus Fan
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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by Airbus Fan » 24 Jun 2013, 14:07

I sent EVRA airport files via db-online.fr

I think new airport will be ENGM ( Oslo intl., Norway).

Airbus Fan
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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by Airbus Fan » 25 Jun 2013, 10:11

Where can I find page, where will be displayed coordinades of missing waypoints? For example GM619, OKAKI, OKSAT waypoints are missing in FSX database... I can't find them in the internet..

fdd_fr
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Joined: 03 Jan 2012, 16:02

Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by fdd_fr » 26 Jun 2013, 12:19

in the most cases, the waypoints coordonates are written on the airports charts. But, sometimes, you must convert them in decimal system.(there are many free online coordonates converter).

For my job, I can't work on the panel, and the aircraft during my holidays. My laptop is too old and without joystick, I can't make test.

So , please, excuse me, but I must do a break and I will re-start to work on the panel at the end of my holidays.

I come back the july 26.

Sorry for this break.


Francois

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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by Airbus Fan » 26 Jun 2013, 12:26

You don't have to sorry. You already did a huge job on this panel. :)

Airbus Fan
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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by Airbus Fan » 28 Jun 2013, 07:24

Next airport will be ESSA ( Stockholm Arlanda ).

fdd_fr
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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by fdd_fr » 03 Aug 2013, 06:37

New version of EHAM, because the four first STAR was false (first waypoint was in england with ICAO code EG and not EH. New version (3.04) is online

fdd_fr
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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by fdd_fr » 03 Aug 2013, 17:51

New version of EDDS - Stuggart

Sid was realized by Platudis. I have wrote the STAR and approaches.

The link to the database : FreeNav DB group Site

You can download each airport separetely, or the entire database with the file FD_FMC.zip, updated today.

There is a PDF file with all the airports realized.

Francois

Airbus Fan
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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by Airbus Fan » 03 Aug 2013, 18:39

Thanks. I'll start to do other airport.

Just wondering, when will you test my airport ( EVRA ) ?

fdd_fr
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Joined: 03 Jan 2012, 16:02

Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by fdd_fr » 03 Aug 2013, 18:55

Oups ! I have forgot with the holidays. Sorry

I test it tomorrow. I must search in my mails

Francois

Airbus Fan
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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by Airbus Fan » 03 Aug 2013, 19:09

Hehe. No problem. :D

fdd_fr
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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by fdd_fr » 15 Aug 2013, 10:59

here is links to updated airports, with now STAR and Approaches

all these updates have been realized by Jean-pierre Varnier. Thanks Jean-pierre

EGJB - Guernsey --------> EGJB

EGJJ - Jersey ------------> EGJJ

LEMD - Madrid Barajas --------------> LEMD

LPPT - Lisbon Lisboa Intl -------------> LPPT

LSGG - Geneva Cointrin ------------ > LSGG

LFBZ - Biarritz Bayonne Anglet ----------> LFBZ

LFMT - Montpellier Méditérannée ----------> LFMT

LFRD - Dinard Pertuit Saint-Malo ---------> LFRD

LFRK - Caen Carpiquet --------------------------> LFRK

LFRQ - Quimper Plugaffan --------------------> LFRQ

LFST - Strasbourg Entzheim-----------------------> LFST


There is also LFRH - Lorient airport that had many errors in STAR and approaches. I have fixed them.



LFRH -------> LFRH


All the links are on rapidshare.

I can't access to the FreeNav DB Group FTP, because I am not at home.

I will update the website in 2 weeks.

Sorry for the convenience.

Francois

Airbus Fan
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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by Airbus Fan » 15 Aug 2013, 11:21

Thank You for these updated airports. :)

fdd_fr
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Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by fdd_fr » 15 Aug 2013, 18:13

EVRA - Riga coming soon airbusfan....when I will complete your SIDs with STAR and Approaches, but time is difficult to find . :/

francois

fdd_fr
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Joined: 03 Jan 2012, 16:02

Re: SID/STAR/APPROACH free Database Project

Post by fdd_fr » 25 Aug 2013, 15:04

hi,

Big update today : the following airports have been updated, with STAR and Approaches :

EGJJ Jersey
EGJB Guernesey
LEMD Madrid
LEBZ Biarritz
LFMT Montpellier
LFRD Dinard
LFRK Caen
LFST Strasbourg
LPPT Porto
LSGG - Genève
LFRQ - Quimper
All realised by Jean-pierre Varnier



and 3 new airports with SID , STAR and Approaches
EGCC - Manchester - UK by Jean-pierre Varnier
EVRA - Riga - LATVIA - SID by AirbusFan, STAR and Approaches by Francois Dore
ENGM - Oslo Gardermoem - Norway by Jean-pierre Varnier /!\ PLEASE NOTE : This airport requires the lastest AIRAC file of Graham Mitchell (AIRAC050513.zip) that you can download here : http://www.gbmitch.net/




You can download all these airports one by one here : http://www.db-online.fr/dbonline/?page_ ... &gtlang=en

Or all the complete database updated : http://www.db-online.fr/download/FD_FMC/01/FD_FMC.zip

List in PDF file of the database : http://www.db-online.fr/download/FD_FMC ... 013%20.PDF

Francois

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