A380 and vasFMC autoland problem

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CaptainWho
Posts: 1
Joined: 22 Apr 2012, 17:07

A380 and vasFMC autoland problem

Post by CaptainWho »

Hello

first of all i'd like to say that you guys did a great job on the A380, it is easily the best A380 for MSFS freeware or not. but im having some problems with the vasFMCs autoland or more specifically the Flare before touchdown, it is doing the flare too late, which makes the plane hit the runway way too hard and bounce up in the air again. so am i doing something wrong or is it a known problem?

IronEagle
Posts: 4
Joined: 02 Apr 2012, 13:55

Re: A380 and vasFMC autoland problem

Post by IronEagle »

Well I really don't have the correct answer to your concern, but what I do is disengage autopilot at around 400 ft. and Land it manually... =)

CaptainWho1
Posts: 15
Joined: 24 Apr 2012, 18:08

Re: A380 and vasFMC autoland problem

Post by CaptainWho1 »

IronEagle wrote:Well I really don't have the correct answer to your concern, but what I do is disengage autopilot at around 400 ft. and Land it manually... =)
sorry something happend to my "CaptainWho" account and i the site wouldnt send my password to my hotmail so i had to start a new one....

but anyways thanks for the awnser, the thing is that i just felt like if the vasFMC that controls the pairbus A380, has an autoland feature that it should work and not crash the plane into the ground and bounce it up in the air again, so i thought that it might not be a problem with the aircraft but how i did set it up in the fmc.

just one question: can anybody try to do a autoland with the A380 vasFMC version and see if you get the same result?

EDIT

i just tried the autoland on the A380 while using fspassengers just to see how hard the landings were, even though i know you cant compare freeware to payware i needed a reference point.
iFly 737 autoland gave me a -127ft/min
PAirbus A380 with vasFMC gave me a -473ft/min. besides the A380 wouldnt allign correctly with the runway (it turns too slow) so i had to take manual control to allign it and then put on the autopilot again, another thing is that when i took off at about 1000feet i put on the autopilot (that was correctly set) and the A380 put itself into a stall. what am i doing wrong? i know the A380 support autoland since i see it says "flare" and the aircraft flares, it just does it too late.

CaptainWho1
Posts: 15
Joined: 24 Apr 2012, 18:08

Re: A380 and vasFMC autoland problem

Post by CaptainWho1 »

nobody? can i at least get an "its a known problem with ...." so i know its not just me having it

Adventszeit
Posts: 6
Joined: 19 Nov 2010, 20:06

Re: A380 and vasFMC autoland problem

Post by Adventszeit »

As far as i know, he once posted, that there is no autoland feature. He also said that he would not include it. If i am wrong correct me.

CaptainWho1
Posts: 15
Joined: 24 Apr 2012, 18:08

Re: A380 and vasFMC autoland problem

Post by CaptainWho1 »

Adventszeit wrote:As far as i know, he once posted, that there is no autoland feature. He also said that he would not include it. If i am wrong correct me.
thats weird, because the plane does actually flare and "flare" and "rollout" shows up on the flight display, it just flares too late.
whats funny about this is that if the plane wouldnt have said "flare" and actually flared i wouldnt have cared but because i now have "this plane supports autoland" in the back of my head i want it to work 100%. lol

esg
Posts: 1591
Joined: 01 Jul 2009, 22:03

Re: A380 and vasFMC autoland problem

Post by esg »

Autoland works fine for me.

CaptainWho1
Posts: 15
Joined: 24 Apr 2012, 18:08

Re: A380 and vasFMC autoland problem

Post by CaptainWho1 »

esg wrote:Autoland works fine for me.
is it a 100% hands-off landing and it doesnt land so hard it bounces up in the sky again? if so can you teach me? :)

esg
Posts: 1591
Joined: 01 Jul 2009, 22:03

Re: A380 and vasFMC autoland problem

Post by esg »

I'm not doing anything special. Check that you're using the A380 config file with VAS.

CaptainWho1
Posts: 15
Joined: 24 Apr 2012, 18:08

Re: A380 and vasFMC autoland problem

Post by CaptainWho1 »

yes i am, when i went from the general A380 config file to the Project Airbus one the landing-rate went from 470+fpm to ~380-390fpm but 380 is still way too hard, from what i have heard 200-300fpm is a normal touchdown rate for big jets like 747, 777 and A380s, and when they are autolanding its usually slightly less maybe 170-240fpm.

but what speed, flap setting and fuel amount do you usually have when landing? i found out that full flaps ~20% fuel and 160kts made the smoothest landing but on the glideslope it did pitch down too much. and also no matter what speed or flap setting i use i always bounces on the touchdown, sometimes i bounce into a go-around situation.

Adventszeit
Posts: 6
Joined: 19 Nov 2010, 20:06

Re: A380 and vasFMC autoland problem

Post by Adventszeit »

Sorry, my bad, autoland also works fine for me. I use the speeds the FMC calculates for landing.

CaptainWho1
Posts: 15
Joined: 24 Apr 2012, 18:08

Re: A380 and vasFMC autoland problem

Post by CaptainWho1 »

Adventszeit wrote:Sorry, my bad, autoland also works fine for me. I use the speeds the FMC calculates for landing.
on what page do you see that? last time i tried to find something like that in the FMC i failed to find it.

777beats340
Posts: 95
Joined: 29 Jul 2010, 14:29

Re: A380 and vasFMC autoland problem

Post by 777beats340 »

Hey I had the same problem from time to time.

Basics to solve this problem.

1) Are you using the gauge file downloaded from PAIRBUS? If yes then continue on, if No, then download the gauge file from here (there are plenty of vasFMC files onlines, some have been tinkered with and are kinda unstable causing unpredictable fs events)
2) The biggest thing with autoland in vasFMC is that you must be flying precisely in a manner similar to the real thing. you have to be able to intercept the localizer at below the vertical glideslope, so it can descend at a nice v/s.
3) In addition note how heavy you are coming. If your flying at I believe at anything above 20% fuel and max pax and cargo you will hit the pavement hard.
4) Finally the autoland function was designed primarily for a32x series, and is still a WIP. So best bet if your comfortable, is to disable Vas about 300 feet from the runway, or as soon as you can see the runways PAPI lights for a manual landing.

Hopefully this helps!

CaptainWho1
Posts: 15
Joined: 24 Apr 2012, 18:08

Re: A380 and vasFMC autoland problem

Post by CaptainWho1 »

777beats340 wrote:Hey I had the same problem from time to time.

Basics to solve this problem.

1) Are you using the gauge file downloaded from PAIRBUS? If yes then continue on, if No, then download the gauge file from here (there are plenty of vasFMC files onlines, some have been tinkered with and are kinda unstable causing unpredictable fs events)
2) The biggest thing with autoland in vasFMC is that you must be flying precisely in a manner similar to the real thing. you have to be able to intercept the localizer at below the vertical glideslope, so it can descend at a nice v/s.
3) In addition note how heavy you are coming. If your flying at I believe at anything above 20% fuel and max pax and cargo you will hit the pavement hard.
4) Finally the autoland function was designed primarily for a32x series, and is still a WIP. So best bet if your comfortable, is to disable Vas about 300 feet from the runway, or as soon as you can see the runways PAPI lights for a manual landing.

Hopefully this helps!
1) Yes i am using it, but i have tried from other sites aswell which didnt help at all.

2) im always intercepting it below the GS.

3) 20% fuel with the default payload (100% fuel with the default payload makes the plane 20000+Lbs overweight) although i have tried at 0Lbs payload which didnt work either as when the plane should do the rollout it instead takes off again with the thrust at idle so it stalls and crashes.... sometimes it does that with a payload aswell.

4) WIP? i thought vasFMC was abandoned since the owner lost the interest in Flight Sims, i really hope that im wrong and that it will get a proper autolanding system, its just nice to know that it doesnt matter what the weather its going to be like at your destination airport, you always got a system to bring you home safely.

another thing is that the landings are never consistent, with the same load, the same fuel levels, the same aircraft, the same weather and the same runway, i have gotten everything from a solid slightly rough touchdown with some flare, to a very hard landing with no flare, to a too early flare so that i didnt even touch the runway and climbed to about 300feet and stalled.

sorry for my english, but i blame it on the fact that im really tired right now. thanks for the help by the way.

777beats340
Posts: 95
Joined: 29 Jul 2010, 14:29

Re: A380 and vasFMC autoland problem

Post by 777beats340 »

Hey captain,

Just read your post. Just to clarify the WORK IN PROGRESS meant that the latest and last version was never refined like say pay ware addons say pmdg or leveld or even the auto landing freeware gauge available. When I had asked on the vas forums the explanation given was vague. Before 2.1 I simply relied on autoenvironment v1 which including a rudimentary but working vnav and autoland. However with 2.1 the control system Became complex and thus autopilot moved from the
Default fs2004 system, which simply means no outside gauges can be used with 2.1. I experienced what you have had, it floats instead of flaring. So again the best bet is to simply flare and disable autopilot.

If anyone else has success, like some have mentioned before, what airport, what xwind
Component, landing weight, v/s at touchdown, touchdown point and did u disable autopilot
Prior to landing.

CaptainWho1
Posts: 15
Joined: 24 Apr 2012, 18:08

Re: A380 and vasFMC autoland problem

Post by CaptainWho1 »

Hey,

Well this is both good and bad news for me, good for the fact that it was not my fault it couldn't land properly, bad for the fact that there is no way to make it autoland properly, and that there won't be a new version of the vasFMC.

Anyways thank you for the help.

Jetaholic
Posts: 2
Joined: 08 Nov 2013, 05:37

Re: A380 and vasFMC autoland problem

Post by Jetaholic »

I know this is an old thread but after reading through it I felt compelled to post.

One of the things I noticed was that the OP was asking about what fuel load should be on board when landing and noticed he was referring to a target fuel load of 20% being some sort of a "magic number". However, what we should be looking at is the aircraft gross weight (i.e. empty weight of the aircraft + passenger weight + baggage & cargo weight + fuel weight) and comparing it to the aircraft's rated max landing weight (MLW). When you're coming in to land, pull up the Fuel & Payload menu and see what your gross weight is. If it's above the aircraft's MLW rating, figure out how much above MLW it is and that's how much fuel weight you need to dump in order to bring it in smoothly.

Your Zero Fuel Weight (ZFW = gross weight - fuel weight) determines how much fuel you can carry on a flight before you're above max takeoff weight (MTOW). Your fuel burn rate + hours of flight + required take off & climb fuel determines how much fuel you will need to make the trip. DO NOT LOAD FULL TANKS FOR EVERY FLIGHT! Take only what you need to make the flight. This maximizes the volume of passengers & baggage you can take on a flight while ensuring that you have enough fuel to make the flight and that your aircraft will be lightened below MLW by the time you're ready to come in to land.

This is precisely why proper fuel planning is so important. It ensures that you have enough fuel to make the trip and that the aircraft's gross weight will be below its rated MLW by the time you come in to land without having to jettison fuel, which is a waste of money in the real world.

All that being said, it is my understanding that vasFMC was never made with autoland support. If autoland just happened to work with certain aircraft types, then it was by a stroke of luck that it did and was not intentional. The "Land", "Flare" and "Rollout" indications on the PFD are there as merely notifications to tell the pilot what phase of the approach the aircraft is in, not to tell the pilot that vasFMC is landing, flaring and rolling out the aircraft.

For all landings ensure that your spoilers are armed by pressing Shift + / (without the plus sign). This will ensure that the spoilers will automatically deploy once the main gear touches down, which immediately kills all remaining lifting forces and keeps the aircraft on the ground.

In the "First Flight" section of the vasFMC literature, it states to listen to the radalt (RADAR Altimeter) callouts. At the 50' callout, you disengage autopilot and start the flare. Flare VERY gently. Your goal with flaring is not to flare to a stall like in a Cessna 172. You're merely reducing the sink rate and flying the plane to the deck. Flare by giving short "pulses" of nose up (i.e. back, neutral, back, neutral, etc etc). At the 20' callout, pull the throttles to idle and use very small pitch changes to hold the sink rate. Once down, the spoilers deploy, killing all lift, and the nose eventually settles on its own (use rudder to track centerline while the nose is still up). Once the nose settles, activate reverse thrust. Once the aircraft slows to about 60KIAS, cancel the reverse thrust and apply your brakes to come to a stop.

Hope this helps.

777beats340
Posts: 95
Joined: 29 Jul 2010, 14:29

Re: A380 and vasFMC autoland problem

Post by 777beats340 »

At the 50' callout if you disengage and pull back, your too late. The a/c is already descending on the extreme Descent rate, and you wont have time to compensate. I suggest taking over at 200-300' as you have time to take manual control, and from there slow the rapid descent rate Vas is programmed for.

See that's thing I have had success using autoland functionality on 2.1 and 2.09. I know that after a certain Xwind component even the most complex and precise Autoland stumbles. The vasFMC stumbles a bit earlier, but still works till about 10 kts at a 90. Some say it doesnt work, some say it does. Its confusing, but probably the best freeware simulation were gonna get for a while.

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