PA A320 -- How to add more thrust?

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iPetroSS
Posts: 89
Joined: 17 Jun 2010, 07:17

PA A320 -- How to add more thrust?

Post by iPetroSS » 23 Nov 2012, 11:32

Hello guys,

thanks for the great models and the amazing wing flex!
I'd like a little feedback on this issue though.
I have noticed that on the A320, the thrust is never exceeding 92-93 when taking off/climbing.
It is not the joystick I'm using as I tried with F4 still I'm getting no more that 93% of thrust.

Is there a way I can assign the aircraft to use 100% of thrust power? Maybe the .air files?

;)

Atle
Posts: 11
Joined: 25 Apr 2011, 08:18

Re: PA A320 -- How to add more thrust?

Post by Atle » 24 Nov 2012, 14:50

Hey

I don't think more thrust i right, but it should have been nice to get to 100%. Because many sound sets don't have the buzz saw sound at 93%. This is maybe within the limitations of fs9 ?
But on the a320 series the engines i think is at "100%" around 92-93...

Maybe someone could make a soundset with the loving sound buzz saw sound that fits to the wonderful planes from the Pa team:)

TheRedBaron
Posts: 185
Joined: 31 Aug 2012, 20:11

Re: PA A320 -- How to add more thrust?

Post by TheRedBaron » 24 Nov 2012, 16:46

Atle wrote:Hey

I don't think more thrust i right, but it should have been nice to get to 100%. Because many sound sets don't have the buzz saw sound at 93%. This is maybe within the limitations of fs9 ?
But on the a320 series the engines i think is at "100%" around 92-93...

Maybe someone could make a soundset with the loving sound buzz saw sound that fits to the wonderful planes from the Pa team:)
I have made a soundset for the CFM-engined A320s. It is on Avsim (link below)...The default buzz saw sound on mine is pretty soft, as I don't love it, but I included a louder buzz saw file, with instructions on how to enable it.
http://library.avsim.net/search.php?Sea ... &Go=Search

Atle
Posts: 11
Joined: 25 Apr 2011, 08:18

Re: PA A320 -- How to add more thrust?

Post by Atle » 24 Nov 2012, 17:10

oh, that's for fsx...No go for me...

TheRedBaron
Posts: 185
Joined: 31 Aug 2012, 20:11

Re: PA A320 -- How to add more thrust?

Post by TheRedBaron » 24 Nov 2012, 18:00

Atle wrote:oh, that's for fsx...No go for me...
Should work in FS9, unless there is a different system of dealing with sounds.

tors
Posts: 14
Joined: 08 Mar 2012, 13:39

Re: PA A320 -- How to add more thrust?

Post by tors » 27 Nov 2012, 13:00

I have the same problem with the throttle, it´s only about 90% when I take off. Is something that can fix this (maybe something to change in aircraft.cfg?). :roll:

TheRedBaron
Posts: 185
Joined: 31 Aug 2012, 20:11

Re: PA A320 -- How to add more thrust?

Post by TheRedBaron » 28 Nov 2012, 03:03

http://www.satavirtual.org/fleet/A320PERFORMANCE.PDF
That should explain it. According to charts, above around 95% N1 would be unrealistic.

fdd_fr
Posts: 1627
Joined: 03 Jan 2012, 16:02

Re: PA A320 -- How to add more thrust?

Post by fdd_fr » 29 Nov 2012, 15:47

Hi TheRedBaron, hi IpetroSS

These charts show the climb thrust, but not the full power thrust.

A trubine engine has always a 100% value of N1 for its continuous maximum thrust (MCT) at sea level. This is the reference and there is always a possibility of overpowered (between 105 to 115% at the sea level, depend of engines)for a litttle time ( TOGA position ) that can be use for 5 to 10mn .

I had must to correct the Air file of the A320 to adjust the N1 curves value to work with my FMS gauge that I write, because, with the original file, it was impossible to get a climb at 82-83% of N1, according the Airbus charts.

I will post in few hours (I am at my office) this .air file modified.

But keep it mind, that the full power is never use exept specific case (TOGA, takeoff on contamined runways) so with this airfile, you don't must push the throtlle at max postion (in normal situtation, the pilot never exceed the FLX/MCT postion of the throttle that corespond is near of 92-93% of the throttle course. and think that N1 decrease with altitude.

fdd_fr
Posts: 1627
Joined: 03 Jan 2012, 16:02

Re: PA A320 -- How to add more thrust?

Post by fdd_fr » 29 Nov 2012, 18:16

You can try these new air files (CFM and IAE version) with new N1 curves and real power value :

https://rapidshare.com/files/694929417/ ... curves.zip

so You must edit each aircraft.cfg file to change some value :

For the CFM version :

[GeneralEngineData]
engine_type=1
fuel_flow_scalar=1.086
Engine.0=13.500000,-18.95,-5.125
Engine.1=13.500000,18.95,-5.125
min_throttle_limit=-0.25

in the autopilot section , check that :
[autopilot]
autothrottle_max_rpm=96.5



[TurbineEngineData]
fuel_flow_gain=0.00247
inlet_area=25.3000
rated_N2_rpm=16000
static_thrust=27000
// CFM56-5B4 engine 120Kn thrust update by francois Dore with Airbus industrie data
afterburner_available=0
reverser_available=1
bypass_ratio=5.70 // bypass ratio CFM Engines







For IAE version :

[GeneralEngineData]
engine_type=1
fuel_flow_scalar=1.086
Engine.0=13.500000,-18.95,-5.125
Engine.1=13.500000,18.95,-5.125
min_throttle_limit=-0.25
max_contrail_temperature=-30


in the autopilot section , check that :
[autopilot]
autothrottle_max_rpm=96.5


[TurbineEngineData]
fuel_flow_gain=0.00247
inlet_area=22.6000
rated_N2_rpm=14950.000000
static_thrust=26600.000000
// IAE v2527-A5 26500 Lbs - 117.88Kn update by francois Dore with Airbus industrie data
afterburner_available=0
reverser_available=1
bypass_ratio=4.80 // bypass ratio IAE Engines

Atle
Posts: 11
Joined: 25 Apr 2011, 08:18

Re: PA A320 -- How to add more thrust?

Post by Atle » 01 Dec 2012, 08:09

This is only for fsx? or can i use it in Fs9? :)

and if i also can use it for Fs9, why cant i download the file?! it don't work for me...:(

fdd_fr
Posts: 1627
Joined: 03 Jan 2012, 16:02

Re: PA A320 -- How to add more thrust?

Post by fdd_fr » 01 Dec 2012, 19:56

I havn't FS9 so, I cannot kow if it worksfor FS9.

Try it.

WarthogCC
Posts: 9
Joined: 21 May 2015, 21:22

Re: PA A320 -- How to add more thrust?

Post by WarthogCC » 29 May 2015, 03:29

fdd_fr wrote:You can try these new air files (CFM and IAE version) with new N1 curves and real power value :

https://rapidshare.com/files/694929417/ ... curves.zip
I know this is an old post but...

Since Rapidshare has gone down permanently, would you happen to be able to host it again or send me a copy?

Thanks

fdd_fr
Posts: 1627
Joined: 03 Jan 2012, 16:02

Re: PA A320 -- How to add more thrust?

Post by fdd_fr » 30 May 2015, 08:57

You can download Modified Air files for PA A320 CFM and IAE here : http://freenavdbgroup.com/download/dive ... 0files.zip

Read the "TXT" file to adapt your Aircraft.cfg files...

These airfiles comes from FD-FMC project. They decrease thust at middle RPM and increase thrust at high RPM. Totally new thrust curves to close real turbine engine.

François

WarthogCC
Posts: 9
Joined: 21 May 2015, 21:22

Re: PA A320 -- How to add more thrust?

Post by WarthogCC » 03 Jun 2015, 21:48

Thanks Francois!

WarthogCC
Posts: 9
Joined: 21 May 2015, 21:22

Re: PA A320 -- How to add more thrust?

Post by WarthogCC » 04 Jun 2015, 05:45

I tested the new files and aircraft.cfg settings and it's WONDERFUL! Now if it would be possible to do the same for the A319, specifically the CFM model, or the "-111". Out of all the PA aircaft, I've noticed the most problems with that one. No matter what adjustment we make, it always seems to want to accelerate when taxiing at 0% throttle, but then it's underpowered when in flight.

(If this needs to go in a new thread let me know, but it's related to the same "fix" that you just gave me for the A320.)

If I adjust the static thrust and bypass ratio numbers to match the real CFM56-5B5 engine (which is on the -111 variant, the one that the PA319CFM is supposed to be) it's under powered. So I used the CFM site data and the CFM56 Wikipedia page to try some other engine numbers. Here's what I got....

(I put these notes in my aircraft.cfg file)

//Actual data taken from CFM site http://www.cfmaeroengines.com/engines/c ... technology
//and the CFM56 Wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFM_Intern ... -5B_series
// ST = Static Thrust BR = Bypass Ratio

//A319-111 - CFM56-5B5 - ST=22000 - BR=6.0 - result: Severely underpowered using these settings, but PA insists this model is a -111. Cruises in Flex thrust at 94% instead of Cruise thrust

//A319-112 - CFM56-5B6 - ST=23500 - BR=5.9 - result: Slight improvement. Still slightly underpowered in the air, but on the ground it now accelerates on its own after releasing the brakes with throttle at 0%, even with max fuel and payload.

//A319-115 - CFM56-5B7 - ST=27000 - BR=5.7 - result: Very good climb and cruise performance, but keep zero throttle and use constant brakes when taxiing, as it will easily be going past 30kts before you realize it.


Conclusion: After using your modified air files for the A320, I realized that this is exactly what is needed also for the A319. Lowering the power at Low RPMs will keep it from rolling on its own, and the higher power at High RPMs will give it the realistic performance it needs. Maybe.

For the time being I use the -5B6 numbers for a happy medium.

One more note: And this is for both the CFM and IAE models. Everyone seems to have the wrong numbers for the "inlet_area" variable. It's easy to calculate a circle diameter into square footage, so I use the fan diameter data listed at the CFM and IAE sites, I get 25.4430 for CFM and 21.9952 for IAE. I can use those numbers for a more accurate inlet size setting. But the actual fan blade tips of a turbine engine go slightly past the inlet opening (flange). The inlet itself is slightly smaller.

I actually work on airport flight line, so the next CFM56 or IAEv25xx engine I see, I'm going to measure the inlets of these engines myself to see what it's actually supposed to be. (Or just get the engine data from whoever is working on the aircraft.) The manufacturer sites are no help. They seem to only have the fan diameter data. I cannot find the correct inlet sizes listed anywhere.

Anyway let me know your thoughts. And thanks again.

WarthogCC
Posts: 9
Joined: 21 May 2015, 21:22

Re: PA A320 -- How to add more thrust?

Post by WarthogCC » 10 Jun 2015, 19:33

Any way to do this fix for the A319 as I suggested above?

alamahant
Posts: 1
Joined: 02 Sep 2016, 07:17

Re: PA A320 -- How to add more thrust?

Post by alamahant » 02 Sep 2016, 07:27

Indeed.
PA planes-however fantastic to look at-have very nasty flight behaviour that makes them unflyable.
They are SEVEEEEEEEERLY underpowered,impossible to take off from an elevated runway,prone to stall during take off because never achieving VR speed and throw their nose a million degrees up during take off which make them stall even more easily.
I found out that i have to apply NEGATIVE pitch trim of around -3% in order for them to take off in a normal angle of ascend.
I dont know why this is so,but applying suppossedely realistic settings in your config files and thus making your planes unflyable is a foolish thing to do.
Just FIX it pleaseeeee.
I hope these airfiles will fix it,
BUT
I am telling you I am surely going to increase static thrust or engine scalar or both :)

User avatar
The320Pilot
Posts: 323
Joined: 29 Jul 2014, 22:47

Re: PA A320 -- How to add more thrust?

Post by The320Pilot » 02 Sep 2016, 16:36

alamahant wrote:Indeed.
PA planes-however fantastic to look at-have very nasty flight behaviour that makes them unflyable.
They are SEVEEEEEEEERLY underpowered,impossible to take off from an elevated runway,prone to stall during take off because never achieving VR speed and throw their nose a million degrees up during take off which make them stall even more easily.
I found out that i have to apply NEGATIVE pitch trim of around -3% in order for them to take off in a normal angle of ascend.
I dont know why this is so,but applying suppossedely realistic settings in your config files and thus making your planes unflyable is a foolish thing to do.
Just FIX it pleaseeeee.
I hope these airfiles will fix it,
BUT
I am telling you I am surely going to increase static thrust or engine scalar or both :)
Try using the Project Airbus FD-FMC version and see if it works better. There is a thread over here in the PA forum, Support section.

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