My first plane in GMAX

Jason9001 · Post by **Jason9001** » 22 Nov 2009, 18:13

I tried to make a BAE-146 and i made it i know the model don't look so good but its because i only tried to learn the basics of 3D modelling and i only used a hour to model it :mrgreen:

Not the best

Right now

Post by **Alexis** » 22 Nov 2009, 18:41

It would show better in a wireframe. Some points to take care of when you start your next model:
-On the nose you can see that the reflection bends a bit upwards. Make sure the splines are on a straight line when projected to their nearest tangent plane (that's how I define it). That means by looking at the cross-section of the nose, starting from -45 and all the way to 45 degrees, when the plane is seen from the side you should see the edges/splines as a straight line (to the extent that is possible).
Here's a not that good example from an old 737 I had begun:

-Something similar can be said for the cockpit window area
-For the wingroot and gear area, you need to make it mesh more smoothly with the fuselage. Try cloning and detaching the faces where it will contact the fuselage, and edit the detached parts by adding faces and vertices to make the transition smoother. Then model the wings separately and make sure they all match together.
Here's a very basic tutorial to get you started with box modeling (or in FS, cylinder modeling): http://www.3dsmaxtutorials.net/modellin ... g-a-cat-p5
Here's a simple, yet more advanced tutorial on making engines. You could also use it for anything you want to make, with experience. It's a very quick way to model stuff, although not always poly-efficient:http://www.flightsimworld.com/forums/in ... +modelling
I had written a series of tutorials with most of the techniques used in basic modeling, but I'll have to translate it in English. It will familiarise you with some aspects and help with adding such details.

Jason9001 · Post by **Jason9001** » 22 Nov 2009, 21:01

Thank you so much for you reply Alexis

And i know it was only a starter i will try to do it better next time i will try to be more familiar with the program

And i really appricate you have made some tutorials i hope i be the first to get them

A thing more if you could help me more it will be super nice

A video will be nice to

Post by **Alexis** » 22 Nov 2009, 21:26

Take your time and learn the skills necessary. The method I use on my models is to set up the bacground images and then start out with the basic cylinder shape.
When I want to make parts that don't follow a specific pattern (i.e. a wing's base into the fuselage) I do the following:
1)Select and detach the faces that will be covered by the wingroot.
2)I make the cross-sections of the wingroot vertex-by-vertex
3)I connect the vertices creating the faces of the wing's base
The site I uploaded the tutorials to is down, unfortunately. Do a search for: Box modeling, Spline modeling, UVW unwrapping and mapping tutorials.
A good site to start reading is Tutorialized.com, and for some more advanced techniques in modeling (they won't be quite useful in FS, however you will be able to use a trick or two from there) go to highend3d.com

Another important thing for symmetry purposes:
When making a fuselage (and perhaps other parts) delete the left or right half. Then use the mirror button (above the viewports) and choose instance. This way you'll work half of the model and the other half will be updated with the changes you make automatically. Once you're 100% done, delete the instanced half->Clone the original half->apply the mirror modifier from the drop-down menu to the right of the screen->right click and Collapse the mirrored model->Move it into position. Attach it to the original half and weld the collocated vertices.

Jason9001 · Post by **Jason9001** » 22 Nov 2009, 21:34

I will try to do that at my next project

Jason9001 · Post by **Jason9001** » 22 Nov 2009, 22:12

I really hope i can learn this because i want to make a payware plane or i think i start with a free

I hope i can

Post by **Alexis** » 22 Nov 2009, 22:14

Start with a few easy freeware models. Maybe try an Ultralight or a simple prop.

Jason9001 · Post by **Jason9001** » 22 Nov 2009, 22:18

I know what you mean i will try the cessana

But do you thing i can start with a MD82?

Post by **Alexis** » 22 Nov 2009, 23:11

The fuselage is a simpler shape than the Cessna. Why not? Make sure you put all your mistakes and attention into it. This way, you will gain a lot of experience sooner, rather than later.

Jason9001 · Post by **Jason9001** » 22 Nov 2009, 23:36

Ok so it be a MD82 i hope i can make hole the MD8x famely

I start with freeware then try to make payware

Techmen · Post by **Techmen** » 23 Nov 2009, 01:19

make sure you get your skills down before thinking about trying to make a payware aircraft because when you make a model for payware, the model will be held to a VERY HIGH standard. It will take a little while to hone your skills.

Jason9001 · Post by **Jason9001** » 23 Nov 2009, 13:48

You have right first i'm need to be better and more skilled and then i can try but this model i made was only astarter it can be better i hope

Post by **Alexis** » 23 Nov 2009, 17:20

You can become much better. You don't want to know what my first models were made of...

Post by **GaryG** » 23 Nov 2009, 19:57

Alexis wrote:You can become much better. You don't want to know what my first models were made of...

I`m pretty sure the future ones will be amazing

:lol:

Jason9001 · Post by **Jason9001** » 23 Nov 2009, 21:32

/You can become much better. You don't want to know what my first models were made of.../

Tell me i want to know

And thanks for helping me

I think will get 3D MAX

Techmen · Post by **Techmen** » 23 Nov 2009, 21:58

I would research use of 3DS Max with FS because IIRC there is alot of extra steps in making FS models out of 3DSmax. FSX I believe created a 3DSmax based SDK but FS9 only included one for GMAX and you cant as far as im aware of compile FS models strait from 3DSMax like Gmax can.

heres a GMAX vs 3DSmax topic started where they discussed generally what the differences though not in super detail http://forum.projectopensky.com/index.p ... opic=37849

Also check out FSDeveloper.com since they will most likely have more info on the pros and cons of using 3DSmax for FS and can give you an even more information

Im not saying you shouldn't get 3DSmax but more think hard about it since its alot of money just for simulator

Jason9001 · Post by **Jason9001** » 23 Nov 2009, 22:56

That i don't know so much about but 3DSMAX have better tools than GMAX

I have heard many places its easy to convert the 3D plane models to FS :arrow:

And i know when you use 3DSMax sometimes you can only make highly detailed models but what with PMDG they have made 2 super advanced planes in 3DSMax so i belive 3DSax are better than GMAX.

Techmen · Post by **Techmen** » 24 Nov 2009, 02:38

Looked at FSdeveloper since I was interested as well on which is really better and for aircraft GMAX was the preferred program
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showth ... MAX+3dsmax

And also remember that it doesnt matter the tool more than the person. IMO it really leans more towards the person making the model because if look at the POSKY models those are amazing aircraft models and they are GMAX made.

EDIT: It appears that if you do go 3DSMax route , then only the 3DSMax 9 is supported by MSFS and that is ONLY for FSX. FS9 doesn't have a 3DSMax based SDK. http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17692

Post by **Derek Mayer** » 24 Nov 2009, 05:15

Techmen is right, in this case it's more the person, not the tool. 99% of the extra tools you get in 3ds max are not relevant to FS model design, and those few tools that do give an advantage over gmax are merely time savers, not essentials. Using 3ds max will cause you more headaches than anything at this stage, especially when it comes time to export your model.

Did I mention 3ds max is over $3000?

It's a great program, and worth every penny if you do serious graphics work, but I wouldn't recommend it for your situation. Gmax should keep you plenty busy for the moment.

Post by **GaryG** » 24 Nov 2009, 13:26

well Jason, I admire your enthusiasm. I`m not a modeller, but I believe you are quite trying to run before you`ve learnt how to walk. I don`t want to appear annoying but, everybody knows that having a payware aircraft for Flight Simulator is quite a big job. You only considered the model... how about the systems? textures? flight dynamics? gauges? FMC/FMS/FMGS? These are only few of the things, here people can speak more than me but do contribute to the freeware community first. Have you heard of samdim design? Now they are the airsimmer. Their models were of high quality way before they engaged into the payware stuff. IRIS as well and many more. Think wisely mate. If it was as easy as you picture it, by now, thousands would have flown the Project Airbus A380 which pictures made it appear so close to reality.

Love me or hate me, that is the truth.

Regards and good luck.

Post by **Alexis** » 24 Nov 2009, 14:33

Forgot about this one. Follow it: http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16822

Jason9001 · Post by **Jason9001** » 24 Nov 2009, 14:43

Techmen wrote:Looked at FSdeveloper since I was interested as well on which is really better and for aircraft GMAX was the preferred program
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showth ... MAX+3dsmax

And also remember that it doesnt matter the tool more than the person. IMO it really leans more towards the person making the model because if look at the POSKY models those are amazing aircraft models and they are GMAX made.

EDIT: It appears that if you do go 3DSMax route , then only the 3DSMax 9 is supported by MSFS and that is ONLY for FSX. FS9 doesn't have a 3DSMax based SDK. http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17692

Derek Mayer wrote:Techmen is right, in this case it's more the person, not the tool. 99% of the extra tools you get in 3ds max are not relevant to FS model design, and those few tools that do give an advantage over gmax are merely time savers, not essentials. Using 3ds max will cause you more headaches than anything at this stage, especially when it comes time to export your model.

Did I mention 3ds max is over $3000?

It's a great program, and worth every penny if you do serious graphics work, but I wouldn't recommend it for your situation. Gmax should keep you plenty busy for the moment.

Alexis wrote:Forgot about this one. Follow it: http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16822

PAIRBUSBEST wrote:well Jason, I admire your enthusiasm. I`m not a modeller, but I believe you are quite trying to run before you`ve learnt how to walk. I don`t want to appear annoying but, everybody knows that having a payware aircraft for Flight Simulator is quite a big job. You only considered the model... how about the systems? textures? flight dynamics? gauges? FMC/FMS/FMGS? These are only few of the things, here people can speak more than me but do contribute to the freeware community first. Have you heard of samdim design? Now they are the airsimmer. Their models were of high quality way before they engaged into the payware stuff. IRIS as well and many more. Think wisely mate. If it was as easy as you picture it, by now, thousands would have flown the Project Airbus A380 which pictures made it appear so close to reality.

Love me or hate me, that is the truth.

Regards and good luck.

Thanks for helping me everybody i really appricate it and i start with GMAX and freeware

Thank you so much and thanks for the fast replies

Jason9001 · Post by **Jason9001** » 26 Nov 2009, 21:52

Its hard i don't understand so much :?

If someone could put a little video show some of the thing there is in 3D modelling a plane it will be nice because something i understand and something i don't

This is not so easy as i thought

Post by **Alexis** » 26 Nov 2009, 21:57

Told you so!

have a read at the last series of tutorials I posted the other day (the one with the Cessna). Once you're through, try to play with the techniques that seem interesting and make something simple (like a simple house). By playing around with the vertices and creating polygons for a day, you will be very familiarised with the interface. Then go for the tutorial. Once I have time, I'll translate and mail you my tutorial, it should help you familiarise with the interface and modeling tools.

Jason9001 · Post by **Jason9001** » 26 Nov 2009, 21:59

Hey Alexis thank you for you repli again i really appricate it

I understand some of the things in it but not all i hope you could make a video there could give me some more views over how to do?

And i'm gotta wait for you tutorials

Thank you so so much again

Post by **Alexis** » 26 Nov 2009, 22:33

Check your mail.
A nice interface tutorial for MAX/Gmax: http://www.expertrating.com/courseware/ ... erface.asp
Another nice one: http://www.vtutorial.com/videos/3D_soft ... e_Overview

Jason9001 · Post by **Jason9001** » 04 Dec 2009, 21:42

Hey Alexis

Can i ask about something?

Post by **Alexis** » 04 Dec 2009, 21:55

Sure.

Jason9001 · Post by **Jason9001** » 04 Dec 2009, 22:01

Do pairbus need some panel designers?

You know i'm new in 3D modelling and i'm new in panel design but panel design i'm learning but if i cold join the team then maybe we can find i way i can learn it faster and you can help me with both things

I only ask

Jason9001 · Post by **Jason9001** » 04 Dec 2009, 23:51

Alexis can you answer me i want to know

Tranceaddict · Post by **Tranceaddict** » 05 Dec 2009, 08:17

Alexis is not the person to take a call on that.

We've got your message and will revert to you in private when we've decided. For now, we request you do not discuss this on the open forums. Thanks

What you can do is continue your good work and learn. Alex and the rest here will always be around to help. But you're still gonna have to work a few levels up. Right now we've got our task cut out... so keep at it & we'll let you know

Jason9001 · Post by **Jason9001** » 05 Dec 2009, 13:06

Tranceaddict wrote:Alexis is not the person to take a call on that.

We've got your message and will revert to you in private when we've decided. For now, we request you do not discuss this on the open forums. Thanks

What you can do is continue your good work and learn. Alex and the rest here will always be around to help. But you're still gonna have to work a few levels up. Right now we've got our task cut out... so keep at it & we'll let you know

Sorry Tranceaddict i didn't mean it in that way and i thougt you didn't get my message because my computer turned of when i sended my message

Tranceaddict · Post by **Tranceaddict** » 05 Dec 2009, 18:08

no problem. keep working at your model.. PA will help you here whenever needed.

Jason9001 · Post by **Jason9001** » 06 Dec 2009, 21:51

Can someone make a tutorial to me with plane designing how to edit fuselage etc. because i try to make a fuselage but when i come to the editing part i get lost

Post by **Alexis** » 06 Dec 2009, 22:35

Once you have created the cylinder, right click->Convert to editable mesh. Then, by selecting Vertex (the three dots to the right) and the move tool, you can make it any way you want. Just select the vertices and move them.

Jason9001 · Post by **Jason9001** » 06 Dec 2009, 23:07

i do it but when i'm editing them i get in truble i don't know why i can't make it look good

Post by **Alexis** » 06 Dec 2009, 23:48

That's the art of it, making it look good!
Go to the sites I linked you to, and look for beginners' tutorials. Then go on with the Cessna tutorial (one of the last I linked). Do these and soon you'll be doing some simple & good models. If I could help you any more, I'd be there showing you on your screen, but that is not possible.

Techmen · Post by **Techmen** » 07 Dec 2009, 05:41

I dug out one of my old tutorials and posted it here http://www.enigmasim.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=329, should help with aligning vertecies to a 3-view

But as stated before, it is an art and will take a long while to perfect.

Tranceaddict · Post by **Tranceaddict** » 07 Dec 2009, 13:59

if at first you dont succeed.. try again

Jason9001 · Post by **Jason9001** » 07 Dec 2009, 16:57

Hey Techmen can you give me another tutoral with editing of fuselage how to make the nose round etc. and how to set wings on it will be nice really need a good tutorial

Techmen · Post by **Techmen** » 07 Dec 2009, 18:25

Create a cylender, convert to an editble mesh, then make the cylinder fit the fuselage from the front view. If the cylinder is not symetric, then delete the worse half and mirror the better half. Then use the same method as I showed above to align all the cylinder parts with your three view, then once it is aligned, select a half of the fuse you what to work on. On that half, start then moving vertecies as nessesary to make the shape correct. Note: will be alot of work and not every vertex will need adjustment.

Final result will possibly look like this

As for the wing it's just create another cylinder and shape it into the general cross section of the wing. Then scale and move the height sections to match the top and front cross sections

Here is what my 737 wing shortly after I made it.

Jason9001 · Post by **Jason9001** » 07 Dec 2009, 20:56

Thank you for helping me my friend and i worked on it and i learned a little bit more but a tutorial will be super nice, still a little bit bad with that with fuselages

Techmen · Post by **Techmen** » 08 Dec 2009, 15:03

Doing a tutorial for a fuse is actually really hard just because shaping a fuse is such a LONG process, best thing IMO is to try to play with it and post your progress. usually people will tell you where it is off and sometimes post a pic to help in fixing it. also look at the wireframes that other people posted so you can see how they modeled thier aircraft and give you ideas for your model

Jason9001 · Post by **Jason9001** » 09 Dec 2009, 07:55

Ok Techmen and thank you again i will try to show some work in progress then i hope i can get some help

Jason9001 · Post by **Jason9001** » 15 Dec 2009, 22:14

This i worked on because i needed to learn more about Gmax i got some good results i think airport designer will be nice too but this is only a test i made i will be back with previews of my other project

This is only a little bit of the EKCH - Kastrup Runway 22L

Post by **Alexis** » 16 Dec 2009, 01:10

It seems you have become a bit familiar with the tools in Gmax. I think your objects are too high on polygons though. For objects that will be that small, you don't need to have so many polygons.

Jason9001 · Post by **Jason9001** » 16 Dec 2009, 12:05

I know its to many polygens but i really like details so i did it with as many i could

Next time i will do it better because i'm going to make a airport too i think

Jason9001 · Post by **Jason9001** » 18 Dec 2009, 13:06

Alexis do you know something about making a detailed airport ground?

Post by **Alexis** » 18 Dec 2009, 20:29

I do not know how to compile sceneries, but I do know that you model it in Gmax as usually and export the airport in parts, then place it. I.e. you model the entire thing, and then export the main terminal & tower, then the taxiways, then the other buildings, then any surrounding roads and so on. Of course, you can still export the entire A/P as a single file.
The hierarchy is putting your scenery in a folder (i.e. Jason's scenery), and including a Scenery folder where you place the .bgl files and a texture folder where you store the .bmp files.

Jason9001 · Post by **Jason9001** » 18 Dec 2009, 23:09

Sounds good because a want to make a EKCH scenery

I have a question more:
are there other ways to make a fuselage on a plane ex. in 3 parts first the first section then middle etc. And if it is can you take a some sceenshots where you show a little bit how you do?